Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
Monday, October 17, 2005
'Difficult Choices' In 'Uncharted Territory': Updated
Some housing related stories from Washington. "Since Congress neglected to index the AMT for inflation, some 40 million mostly middle-class Americans in states with the highest costs of living, largely on the coasts, are expected to get clobbered by it by 2010. The loss of the AMT would leave a huge fiscal hole. The tax is forecast to bring in $600 billion to $1.2 trillion during the next decade."
"'How do we pay for it?' said John Breaux, vice chairman of the panel. 'It always brings up difficult choices.' Real-estate tax breaks are a huge subsidy for one of the most vibrant sectors of the U.S. economy. This triple dip costs the U.S. Treasury about $110 billion a year."
"If the tax panel's proposal to curtail mortgage deductions becomes law, there would be 'an increase in financing costs and a decline in prices, particularly at the high end,' said Doug Duncan, chief economist for the MBA."
"If you subscribe to the idea that home subsidies are contributing to overheated housing prices, then trimming those breaks would raise the total cost of homeownership and hit the priciest markets the hardest."
"Is it fair to say that the properties with the highest levels of debt and taxes might decline in value by one-third? No one knows for sure, yet home buyers in high-tax states like California, Massachusetts, New Jersey and New York would certainly hesitate before trading up or building more-expensive homes."
"The Oct. 19 report on home construction is also expected to show that permits, considered an indicator of future building, dropped to an annual pace of 2.071 million, the fewest since May. An index of builder optimism probably dropped to 64 this month, the lowest since June 2003, a report from the National Association of Home Builders on Oct. 18 is expected to show. 'There has been some spotty signs of a cooling in the broader housing market,' said Joseph Abate, a senior economist at Lehman Brothers Inc."
And Reuters has these statements from Freddie Mac's CEO. "Richard Syron on Monday said Congress should not try to restrict the size of the company's investment portfolio amid growing concern about the U.S. housing market and economic uncertainty following Hurricane Katrina."
"'To be blunt, this is a particularly unwise and dicey time to mess with success and tamper with the most liquid and productive housing finance system in history,' Syron said. 'After all, this is an uncertain period, for our broader economy as well as the long housing boom. New inflationary pressures, job losses, energy and transportation disruptions, housing needs, you name it, we're in uncharted territory here,' Syron said."
Update: The NAR president had this to say, "We were startled that the panel would even consider reducing that cap,' Mansell stated. The 'lack of clarity' by the panel, Mansell also stated, 'is confusing to us, to our members and, most of all, to consumers. It is unwise to create uncertainty of that magnitude in any marketplace, much less in a high-priced, active but delicate housing market.'"
"Mansell also stated in the letter that the very suggestion of a decrease in homeownership-related tax benefits is harming the housing market. 'The public may be misconstruing the news reports, but the fact remains that the news reports and public perception are already chilling some parts of the marketplace, particularly in high-cost areas,' he wrote. 'The Panelists must understand that limiting or eliminating tax benefits will have an adverse impact on housing markets and the value of housing.'"
This MID versus AMT decision is looking like a no-win situation for some housing markets.
ReplyDeleteIf it's no-win, then that might make it more likely they will cap the MID.
ReplyDeleteThe trouble politically is that every middle-class voter with a mortgage understands how the mortgage interest deduction works, and almost no one understands AMT. So even if it is a "no win" proposition the politics will skew toward leaving AMT in place.
ReplyDeleteTampering with the MID is one of several "third rails" in politics. Touching it is instant political electrocution.
Tampering with the MID is one of several "third rails" in politics. Touching it is instant political electrocution.
ReplyDeleteNot really. Only a few blue states will be affected if they lower the limit to around 300K.
Moreover, if that package this with replacing the remaining deduction with a tax credit, this will be an instant hit as much of the country will benefit. Who cares about Kali-phonier?
Why 15%: We believe homeownership is 70% and the median priced home is $220,000. That means only 35% of Americans own a home worth more than $220,000. So 35% should be the max.
ReplyDeleteHomeownership rate is much lower in expensive places like Kali-phonier.
"Here comes dataquick (with all their spins of course)
ReplyDeletehttp://www.inman.com/inmannews.aspx?ID=48396"
a few interesting quotes from the link...
Sales were down 4.7 percent in San Diego County from September 2004 to September 2005
--remember, SD led the way in appreciation, it is leading the way in decline
Year-over-year changes in the median price ranged from 3.8 percent in San Diego County
--pretty soon it'll be negative numbers... remember 1989!
The typical monthly mortgage payment that Southland buyers committed themselves to paying was $2,098 last month... Adjusted for inflation, current payments are slightly below their peak in the spring of 1989.
--when did the last bubble burst again???
Just updated the post:
ReplyDelete'The NAR president had this to say, "We were startled that the panel would even consider reducing that cap,' Mansell stated. The 'lack of clarity' by the panel, Mansell also stated, 'is confusing to us, to our members and, most of all, to consumers. It is unwise to create uncertainty of that magnitude in any marketplace, much less in a high-priced, active but delicate housing market.'"
"Mansell also stated in the letter that the very suggestion of a decrease in homeownership-related tax benefits is harming the housing market. 'The public may be misconstruing the news reports, but the fact remains that the news reports and public perception are already chilling some parts of the marketplace, particularly in high-cost areas,' he wrote. 'The Panelists must understand that limiting or eliminating tax benefits will have an adverse impact on housing markets and the value of housing.'"
The housing ATM is shutting down.
ReplyDeleteI was just in a mortgage broker office and was listening to a Mortgage Girl arguing with a mortgage underwriter about an appraisal. The appraisal came in at 380K, but they were arguing that it should be worth 420K. The underwriter was going to be a second mortgage.
Mortgage Girl said an appraisal last year, which was an actual walk-thru, came in at 388K, so it was 'impossible' that a property in California could now be worth only 380K. 'Because it's only been going up for the past year.'
I could even hear the underwriter rep a little. It didn't sound like there was much she could say, or do. Mortgage Girl was insistent on talking to someone in the 'appraisal department' on 'this issue.'
Boy, was I smiling.
Those who already have homes should be “grand fathered in” and could still claim the deduction.
ReplyDeleteThis is not going to happen. A deduction that is grand-fathered in? Wishful thinking.
The fact is, most homeowners in the country will not be affect.
Recent buyers in high-priced area will be hit very hard. This is a small group that is politically-expendable.
That would really “F” up our economy if suddenly everyone who owned a home could no longer claim their deduction.
ReplyDeleteI thought they are only lowering the limit.
The people that pays the most taxes should get the most breaks imo.
ReplyDeleteI agree. But this change will only affect the fake-rich living in $hitboxes on both coasts.
Lowering the deduction limit does not add complexity to the tax code.
(And Reuters has these statements from Freddie Mac's CEO. "Richard Syron on Monday said Congress should not try to restrict the size of the company's investment portfolio amid growing concern about the U.S. housing market and economic uncertainty following Hurricane Katrina."
ReplyDelete"'To be blunt, this is a particularly unwise and dicey time to mess with success and tamper with the most liquid and productive housing finance system in history,' Syron said. 'After all, this is an uncertain period, for our broader economy as well as the long housing boom. New inflationary pressures, job losses, energy and transportation disruptions, housing needs, you name it, we're in uncharted territory here,' Syron said.")
is this what the finance system has evolved too? it's so successful but it's fragile and shouldn't be tampered with? sounds like hous was built on foundations that are unsound...
Bush hasn't vetoed anything, EVER. I don't think he is about to start.
ReplyDeleteThey seems more like liberals trying to legislate.
ReplyDeleteI am not a liberal and I am all for a flat tax.
Bear in mind that AMT is *the* huge tax complexity that hurts upper income taxpayers the most. The problem is find a way to finance it.
By lowering mortgage deduction limit, the elimination of AMT can be financed.
This recommendation *will* reduce tax complexity and we should support it.
The people who will be hurt the most are probably the liberals on both coasts who spent 900K for their 300K houses. Why should the whole country subsidize these people anyway?
Shanghai grows every day and grows very fast every month. There are more than 5,000 buildings in excess of 20 stories, NY has 1,500 and they are building a lot faster than Trump.
ReplyDeleteSounds like the very worst place to own property once the bubble pops is Shanghai.
BTW, Donald Trump is a moron. He inherited a pile of dough from his rich dad, sank it into various schemes, and has had to repeatedly file for bankruptcy. Worse, he is one of the few people in the world who has (mis)managed to lose money operating casinos. It takes a special breed of moron to accomplish that.
WHY WOULD GW BUSH HAVE TO VETO ANYTHING WHEN HIS PARTY CONTROLS BOTH HOUSES OF CONGRESS?
ReplyDeleteMaybe because they don't give a damn about him and his 30-odd% approval rating, they face re-election in 2006, and they actually have a sense of fairness?